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Comment
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petshark 
Board Monitor
(9/15/01 1:30:50 pm)
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An Afghani-American
perspective
I got this from an email group, and I wanted to share it. But I
don't have permission from the author to post it with names attached.
It is from an Afghani-American writer by way of a former poli sci
professor.
A view from Afghanistan
Dear Friends,
The following was sent to me by my friend T____. T____ is an Afghani-American
writer. He is also one of the most brilliant people I know in this
life. When he writes, I read. When he talks, I listen. Here is
his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.
"Dear ____ and whoever else is on this email thread: I've been
hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that
this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing
to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept
collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard
some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do
what must be done."
And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because
I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years
I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell
anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.
I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There
is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the
atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about
those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan.
They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are
a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997.
Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban,
think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you
think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews
in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan
people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first
victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come
in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international
thugs holed up in their country.
Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban?
The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated,
suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there
are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan--a country with no economy,
no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been
burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered
with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These
are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown
the Taliban.
We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already.
Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their
houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate
their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off
from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all
that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would
they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan,
only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around.
They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those
disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have
wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really
be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually
it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping
once again the people they've been raping all this time So what
else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true
fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there
with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly
to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having
the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome
any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads
out of the sand.
What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because
some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan
to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because
to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan.
Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have
to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where
I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the
West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly
what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements.
It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west.
It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the
world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If
the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people
with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point
of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever
that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would
die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden
does. Anyone else?"
Edited by: petshark
at: 9/15/01 2:40:53 pm
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CindyL2
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 1:53:12 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
Sadly, this is most likely very accurate. One of the American news
programs had a reporter who met with some of Bin Laden's people
a while ago. One of his lieutenants told him, rather portentiously,
that we had no idea how ready they were to come to us, and that
we lacked the courage to fight them as they had to be fought, on
the ground, man to man. He was very contemptuous of the aerial bombardment,
and said that it lacked courage.
Thanks for bringing this over. It is very informative.
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Ivy Raine 
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 1:58:43 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
Very interesting letter! And yet - my question is: So what DO we
do???? Anyone want to step up to the plate and answer this? Nothing?
That is what has been done up to this point and here we are facing
this horrific tragedy. What do we do?
Has Pakistan given the ok for us to send ground troops in? From
what I heard - and I do not know if this is true - they have given
us the go ahead to use their bases. Since Pakistan is a nuclear
country and are not harboring the suspect it is highly unlikely
any sort of punitive measures would be taken against them simply
because they dont allow us to house ground troops there. I am sure
we would be able to find another way, just as I am sure that the
President and his team are seeking to find that way right now.
I think it would be an extreme mistake to simply bomb Afghanistan.
I also believe that troops must be sent in (as covertly as possible)
to attack the source of the problem.
~A
proud American dreaming of
a free world~
The flag still stands!
Charismatic
Crowe
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secretariat7
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 2:00:56 pm)
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Interesting
Thanks Petshark. My hope is that Colin Powell is smart enough to
take into consideration all of these factors. I think he may be.
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small
people always do that, but the really great make you feel that
you, too, can become great." --Mark Twain
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Daisytell
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 2:01:51 pm)
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Fortunately
we will win
We will do whatever it takes to stop this evil.
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AZLady
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 2:04:46 pm)
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Afghani-American
perspective
How tragic that there are countries in the world so desperately
poor. I read an interview with one Afghani women who said, "They
might as well bomb us. We are nearly dead anyway."
My vote is, once we have Osama bin Ladin, that we take every dime
of his 340 million $$$ and give half to the victims of the attack
on the US, and use the other half to build schools, hospitals, and
decent houses (won't go very far, I know) in Afghanistan. Oh, but
wait, the Taliban wouldn't want that because it might look like
the US were actually the good guys. Didn't they imprison relief
workers because they were allegedly spreading the virus of Christianity?
Darn, another good idea wasted.
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Jackie12
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 2:07:29 pm)
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An Afghani-American
Perspective
Petshark this was an excellent article and very informative. Its
unbelievable that anybody would go to such means simply to serve
their own ends as Bin Laden appears to have done - let's hope the
west can keep cool heads and find a way forward difficult as it
might seem. I agree with Ivy Raine - what do we do?
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petshark
Board Monitor
(9/15/01 2:09:17 pm)
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Not wasted.
Amazing how easy it would be to shrink the Taliban's support by
feeding the people. "Man cannot live on bread alone" but
it sure helps! And there are a host of Islamic sects that would
be glad to go recruit in lieu of having it look like a Christian
crusade.
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Ivy Raine
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 2:32:06 pm)
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Feeding the
people
I agree, this is an excellent idea. However that does not dimish
the fact that we have to do something about the threat that we are
facing. Osama bin Laden needs to be decommissioned. Period. This
may take years, but all of us need to be involved - regardless of
religion. This is not simply a question of Christianity against
Islam as there are many Islamic Americans and I would be willing
to bet that at least a few of them died on Tuesday. Therefore -
the civilised nations of this world need to stand togather and after
the military "retaliation" (I hate that word) is over
we all need to help to rebuild. I believe the Taliban is a great
threat to all freedom loving people and needs to be taken out of
power. I have believed this for YEARS - just the thought of what
the women over there suffer was enough to make me think that. And
now I think it more than ever before. I believe that while the *people*
of America may be raging right now our leaders will remain cool
and calm about this and will decide the correct recourse. We have
some of the very best working for a solution to this problem. There
are no easy answers - but something MUST be done. We simply CANNOT
allow Osama bin Laden to stay safe and secure in his fetid hole
and continue attacks on America and the rest of the free world.
Sorry to ruffle anyone's feathers - but that is how I feel and I
cant hide it right now.
~A
proud American dreaming of
a free world~
The flag still stands!
Charismatic
Crowe
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crowemagic 
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 3:06:04 pm)
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Re: Feeding
the people
Thanks Petshark for bringing this article over. It concurs with
what I had been thinking, that the Taliban are the bad guys, not
the Afghan people. Also, that Osama bin Laden has this very result
in mind. I think it's important that people know what the government
is up against.
My opinion is that Colin Powell knows full well that all this is
true and my belief is that the U.S. government has a different plan
than the majority of people seem to be talking about. I think they
know what they are doing. And I don't think that's just faith talking.
I think they will fight this battle on their own terms. Anyone who
knows what the Russians went through in Afghanistan knows that conventional
warfare will not work there.
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Russellme 
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 3:47:50 pm)
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Re: Feeding
the people
I am not an expert on conventional warfare but the Russian tried
using more air-to-ground fighting. Missiles don't go very far down
caves unless you're a real good shot. Ground-to-ground fighting
is the only way to get in to all the underground hiding places.
Nothing against the Russian people but I think our armed forces
are much better equipped, and they are going to have the people
behide them, plus we will have allies fighting with us.
"Experience is a hard
teacher,
she test first, and teaches afterward" -- Salada tea bag
    
Edited by: Russellme
at: 9/15/01 4:48:17 pm
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Kira Scurro
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 4:03:19 pm)
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Re: Feeding
the people
this is great info, petshark. and also very poignant and easily
understood insight into what's going on over there. now i can see
where we can go with this. i bet we will be sending in ground troops.
i wouldn't be surprised if we didn't try to overthrow the talaban.
that would be cutting as close to the root of the problem as we
could get. and hopefully without injuring innocent civilians.
~BELIEVE~
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TingSK
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 4:46:38 pm)
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Re: Feeding
the people
*bump*
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Kira Scurro
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 5:08:45 pm)
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Re: Feeding
the people
bump
~BELIEVE~
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MatesChoice
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 5:09:53 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
Thanks Petshark for bringing this over. It's a very informative
article giving a perspective not seen in all the news coverage.
I think that sending in ground troops is exactly what gov't officials
are planning given the amount of information that's been reported
and from commentary from officials/analysts. Pres Bush wouldn't
be calling in 50,000 reservists if he didn't think man-power was
going to be needed. Also, they are working very hard to get as much
cooperation as possible from other countries, particularly Pakistan.
That also suggests sending in ground troups. If we were just going
to send in missles to bomb Afghanistan then the cooperation of other
nations wouldn't be as important. All of the military analysts have
been saying the same thing -- that to do this right we need to send
in ground troops to and only hit specifically the Taliban and Bin
Laden. Hopefully that will be possible. But it will take a long
time which is also what officials have been warning -- that it won't
be a quick strike and it's over kind of retaliation.
It's also probably going to result in more attacks on innocent US
(and other countries most likely) citizens. This is a new war --
and we are all on the front lines. People, including the media which
is surprising, seem to be afraid to call this what it really is.
Pres Bush has come right out and said that we are at war. And since
numerous nations are involved (this isn't just between the US and
the Taliban) I think it's accurate to call it the third world war.
Maybe one reason why no one is calling it that is because 'the enemy'
are terrorists with no clear geographical boundaries.
I do have a question though and I'm not sure if anyone has the answer.
They showed on the news people celebrating in the streets when the
attacks happened - I believe it was in Afghanistan but I could be
wrong. Although I'm sure many people in Afghanistan are abused and
oppressed by the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden, these terrorists also
have many supportors who absolutely despise the US. So how do we
sort out the oppressed from the Bin Laden supporters?
...I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than to teach ten
thousand stars how not to dance -- e.e. cummings
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Russellme
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 5:15:52 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
I believe in was the West Bank area and Iraq
"Experience is a hard
teacher,
she test first, and teaches afterward" -- Salada tea bag
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IzzyLizzy
Perch Pro
(9/15/01 5:21:45 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
The film of "celebrations" were Palestinians in the West
Bank--some commentators have noted that it was before people had
much info and when the full news came out people became much more
somber. It has also been noted that that newsclip (of only a small
group of people on a street) has been shown over and over and there
has been no other film of people celebrating that I have seen.
There is a great deal of generalized anti-American feeling in many
parts of the Mid-East (some for valid reasons, some not valid)--we
should not assume however, that that means people are Bin Laden
supporters. I heard a very good mid-East expert on the radio today
who noted that Bin Laden opposes and hates most other groups in
the Mid-East--including the Palestinians, whose wish for their own
state Bin Laden believes is in opposition to his wish for a fundamentalist
Islamic state (led by him, I assume.) This commentator said that
Bin Laden tries to exploit the anti-American feeling in the region,
but his specific agenda is actually opposed by most people in the
region.
IzzyLizzy
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G E
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 5:31:46 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
<<Although I'm sure many people in Afghanistan are abused
and oppressed by the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden, these terrorists
also have many supportors who absolutely despise the US. So how
do we sort out the oppressed from the Bin Laden supporters?>>
This is the crux of the difficulty. I say you pose the same question
using this analogy: there are tons of militia groups here in the
U.S. that are formally organized and adhere to anti-gov't ideology.
They pose a threat to the security of our country. There are plenty
of people who support their ideology but aren't specifically involved
in these organizations. If we were to crack down on these groups,
does that mean we should also crack down on every citizen who was
racist or held anti-gov't beliefs? They are just ordinary people
with extremist views - are they culpable b/c of their views and
beliefs? The same applies to the Nazis in WWII - were we trying
to take out a form of government or an entire people?
I'm only using this as an example. Freedom of thought and belief
is intrinsic to every human and you can't hold anyone accountable
unless they are specifically tied to an organization that promulgates
an agenda.
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MatesChoice
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 5:33:07 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
Thanks for the info and for correcting me -- I was mistaken. Although
I do think it's true that people don't necessarily have to be Bin
Laden supporters to agree with what he did in the US. Also, although
Pakistan has 'officially' agreed to cooperate with the US (aside
from using their own military), there are people in Pakistan who
are refusing to go along with this decision (they showed this on
the news tonight -- of course, these may just be people on the West
Bank again and represent a small proportion of the country - I don't
know, they didn't specify). My point is, it's going to be really
difficult knowing who the enemy is with so much anti-American sentiment
throughout the mid-East and that doesn't bode well for any ground
troops that are sent in. Makes me worry.
...I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing than to teach ten
thousand stars how not to dance -- e.e. cummings
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myrosarosa
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 7:30:24 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
How to stop Bin Laden? MONEY. Where is his money? In a bank in Swtizerland?
It might be. We need to find where he is keeping his cash and freeze
his accounts? I don't think he keeping it in a bank in Afghanistan
or the Sudan. Sudan kicked him out of there. If we cut off his money,
he can't sent money to his accomplices around the globe, he can't
buy more weapons. If he has no money, he can feed his people.
We need to find the money trail that points directly to Bin Laden.
I know we will find it. Show it the countries that back Bin Laden,
the Middle Eastern countries like Pakistan (which thinks Bin Laden
is not responsible for the attacks). We need persude these countries
to get rid of the Bin Laden problem as I call it.
Rosa
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TOFOGRN
Frequently Perched
(9/15/01 7:34:16 pm)
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Re: An Afghani-American
perspective
Good article.As for those dancing in the streets on Tuesday I have
tried to focus on the following:
In all fairness we probably should not judge others by the behavior
of those from the same nation or culture...I mean look at the perch
alone,a much smaller scale obviously,but would we want to be judged
by some of the "posts" of a few here?
"If you find yourself in Austin in August,in 70 degrees weather
with partly cloudy skies...do not be troubled for you are in Elysium,and
you are already dead!"---obvious credit to "Gladiator",and most
recently to Blanca007.
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AMERICAN
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